tv [untitled] May 23, 2011 8:00pm-8:30pm EDT
and the united states will stand up against efforts to single israel the united nations or in any international forum this world legitimacy is not a matter for debate but a two state solution is essential topic for debate so as president obama tries pleasing all parties involved in the israeli palestinian conflict are his efforts doing more harm than good. and the ousting of egyptian president hosni mubarak may result in an unintended outcome so as hamas and fatah start working together is the situation for israel going from bad closest ally.
gere's commonly coming from palestinian this time coming from a group of all trucks for additional jews so just because this group rejects the state of israel does that mean they're traitors. it's monday may twenty third at eight pm here in washington d.c. i'm christine freeze out there watching our team. well what brings together the president of the united states the house speaker the senate majority leader and other top lawmakers from both sides of the aisle not that feeling not a state dinner but a meeting of the american israel public affairs committee a powerful pro israel lobby apac now the first conference over the weekend of the year in washington and it comes at a time when middle east peace negotiations are on the minds of everyone involved
but as our team is going to take on reports disagreements may keep them from getting to the table. that president obama's calls for peace and a two state solution fell on deaf ears goals with this release from a new from the mere mentioning of back to preen nine hundred sixty seven border mines is unacceptable. so. this is the relationship. with the palestinians who believe there is nothing but words in what the u.s. president has said is that it is a fraction of pressure on it and you know the prime minister of israel or at israel's government now also it's like a cross it's like a lose lose things like it's very hopeless like we hear the right things but no kind of implementation addressing the powerful role it's really lobbying in washington this in those moments need to work in real time no pressure would be put on israel to advance the process in these proposed solution was the friend's advice cannot be imposed on the parties to the constant. no vote at the united nations
will ever create an independent palestinian state and the united states will stand up against our first a single israel out at the united nations and any international. rules legitimacy is not in order. to say the contradiction of words and deeds has been a constant source of global first ration about the us foreign policy in the middle east. one example. the obama administration has called these really settlement expansion illegitimate but when he came to actually bowling at the un security council to condemn the settlement expansion is illegal the u.s. veto the resolution the failure of the united states to deal effectively with the israel palestine issue. double standards to actually apply the president made a very strong case that we should not tolerate civilians being bludgeoned.
by their rulers but we do nothing when the really israelis do all these things. the cost of all the pretty high in terms of our credibility in personage and internationally and that's not important as surveys suggest president obama's ratings in the muslim world are as low as ever experts say the inconsistency with which the u.s. reacted to different episodes of the arab uprising is to blame president obama's speech on thursday was seen as a way to reach out to the arab wars and say the u.s. supports men and women of the street as opposed to suppressive loops but it seems these words resulted in more confusion about u.s. policies particularly when it came to these really palestinian conflict. said what he said in the last speech for. most of the palestinians feel frustrated. and also i was even with the. media.
also. he goes. by the result be a legendary speech but president obama is facing pressure from votes the international community that has long been suggesting the two state solution and the nine hundred sixty seven border lies as part of the solution and it's a lie it's really we find that proposal unrealistic president obama's attempts to please both the international community and this will seem to have resulted in yet another nonstarter in the middle east peace process i'm going to check our reporting from washington our team. and of course the implications of this annual conference are enormous every year but this year in particular with the arab spring and also recent new partnerships in the middle east and an overall change in mood there is so much that can be said about all of this and certainly there are some strong opinions on all sides more earlier i spoke to nora erekat human rights attorney and activist she told me she believes palestinians are ready to accept the existence of an israeli state as long as israel is willing to comply with
international law. as seals are ready to live with any israel that is compliant with international law and human rights norms palestinians are interested in co-existing with their neighbors as equals and that's been the stumbling block so as occupying power israel has relegated its own palestinian citizens it's wrong jewish the new citizens to second class status as a first column and as an occupier it's relegated those civilians and your occupation as persona non-grata as they're not afforded any nationality any rational rights denial of human rights and it affords those refugees were denied the right to return to israel basically a life in exile and so palestinians are looking for an israel that's ready to recognize that it is subject to ensure national law and human rights norms like is every other country that can be held to account let's talk about that i mean
a few different things first of all let's talk about president obama he's been speaking on this issue i know he met with netanyahu of at the end of last week but one of the things that really got so much attention was in a speech that he gave on thursday in which he talked about returning to the pre-one nine hundred sixty seven borders so after that we heard him speak this weekend at a pad and he seemed to be backtracking a little bit so i want to play when he said and i'll get your reaction here are by definition it means that the parties themselves. israelis and palestinians will negotiate a border that is different than the one that existed on june fourth seven. one usually agreed upon what. does seem to be backtracking well by seems he says that his statement was sort of redefined misinterpreted do you think he's not talking do you think he's trying to to know i go i think he's just trying to speak out of both sides of his mouth so on when he spoke on thursday his his speech
basically said that he wants to negotiate from the pre from the one nine hundred sixty seven borders with lance wops which already assumes that there would be a recognition of the settlements that existed at the settlements would go anywhere despite their eagle status under international law what about the issue of jerusalem and the issue of jerusalem he also wanted to relegate the later negotiations because it was so heart wrenching but notice that it is apec address he doesn't say anything different he says that it will not be the one hundred sixty seven borders because of land swaps so where as he tries to appear more appealing on thursday morning on sunday he became very honest at the landslide means no return to sixty seven borders but your roots are in the surrounding settlements that are illegal around jerusalem will become facts on the ground that israel has wanted and tried to make reality with the creation of an addict nation wall when in fact the basic premise is international law un security council resolutions two
forty two three three three three three eight sorry the international court of justice advisory opinion of two thousand and four have all of the banks in forty nine armistice line as the line along which a palestinian state should be built that said that said i think that it becomes really irrelevant anyway to discuss this because basically what is at the table with the us is offering to the palestinians is not sovereignty or statehood but their offer an offering is a state let where they have some sort of autonomy and want to sounds very similar to black townships in south africa or reservations here in the united states. it's very interesting though norah because it seems like both sides are unhappy both sides think obama did not go far enough don't you think that's a sign of a leader that's good usually out but in this case unfortunately no for for a simple reason in order to go far enough for the obama administration to make a statement about nine hundred sixty seven it should be nine hundred sixty seven
basically means that the israeli settlements that illegal settlements are not recognized in the west bank but to say sixty seven and then not to offer as a political will in order to then deal with the settlements as an evil legal structure which the u.s. has the opportunity to do in january when it came up for a security council vote and where the u.s. vetoed that security council resolution which was exact nearing of u.s. policy it means that the u.s. meets these sixty seven but is not willing to provide the political will to do something about it so whereas in the want to hand peace it's sixty seven but they didn't go far enough in order to deal with the settlements on the other hand they said sixty seven which angered these rallies and so i would say if i were the president's adviser he just sort of said anything because you can't not deliver that was north america human rights attorney and activist. and as she was saying brethren obama shouldn't have said anything but many others think the president
actually should have said more and there is concern from both israeli and palestinian leaders and also supporters that the discussion for how to achieve peace needs to expand and change earlier i spoke to norman finkelstein political science scientist and author of the book this time we went too far truth and consequences of the gaza invasion i also spoke with dancehall a co-director of government relations for the zionist organization of america here's part of our conversation. the israelis are extremely anxious to have peace that is a conference about all they talk about is peace and how it should be achieved so peace is the ultimate objective of everyone i know in israel both sides of the political spectrum the problem is is about what the conflict is really about and the united states in formulating issues relating to territory is not getting to the core issue the core issue in my view and probably in the view of most israelis is
the inability of the arab world and the palestinians to accept the very existence of a jewish state in the midst of the middle east and until that issue gets satisfied are the talk of potential border resolution and all the other things that are being focused on really don't care and towards that end of peace. principles for resulting the conflict then called forth by the international community whether it be the international court of justice in july two thousand and four or the united nations general assembly in annual resolution the terms are straightforward there has to be a two state settlement on the june one thousand nine hundred sixty seven border israel is exercising sovereignty and independence within it and the power standing inserts the sizing sovereignty and self-determination in the whole of the west bank
. and east jerusalem as its capital and there also has to be just resolution of the palestinian refugee question those are the terms now karen has a new term he says and israel has to be recognized as a jewish state but there is no basis for that in international law or the. international law. that applies here is u.n. resolution two forty two which does not require that all of the disputed territory of what israelis call judea and samaria and what the dr finkelstein called the west bank be given to the palestinians in fact it's disputed territory the palestinian negotiating ploy seems to be what's yours is negotiable and what's mine is mine as he said in its entirety everything has to be part of a palestinian state in fact that is precisely what needs to be negotiated and it is
the arab side who has steadfastly refused to enter into negotiations direct negotiations that could lead to any kind of peaceful resolution so he's wrong about the international law that applies the general assembly does not determine international law so the fact that they say that jerusalem should be the capital there are certain things and when you say it that the palestinians have said that they're not willing to give anything i mean we start with the palestinian papers we start with a lot of different things that have happened and i've come out in the last few months that in fact at least the palestinian leaders have been willing to put just about everything on the table when it comes to negotiating and there's just a few things that they've asked for from israel that don't seem to be you know no one seems to be budging on well actually those papers were transcripts of the palestinian side of negotiations from several years ago and there's two important facts to know about that first of all they haven't put anything on the table they haven't agreed even to sit down with the israelis and discuss things to the vast
majority of the obama term but secondly the reason those palestinian people have made such news is that the palestinian negotiators have been withholding these very negotiating. positions from their own people and in fact they disavowed them and still claim to this day that those very concessions about allowing some jewish neighborhoods in jerusalem to remain under israeli control they denied that they ever made such concessions now i would be very pleased if a palestinian negotiating team would return to the table with israel and start to go shooting whatever basis and i would be pleased if they would actually observe the agreements they've made in the past which require them to stop incitement against the jewish state and we'll hear more from both norman finkelstein and dan pollack in just a bit but for now you know all of this comes snack in the middle of the arab spring
israel has found itself literally surrounded by revolutions in the region and also from the far the u.s. has found itself caught between supporting democracy and foreign policy interests it's country has been in a tough spot in different weights and as artie's tells their reports the u.s. backed revolution in egypt may have worked. most of the o.t. is happier than he's been in a long time the political activist used to be a member of fatah but switched to harm us because he feels betrayed the trust dealings with israel and one who must be considered a terrorist organization by israel and the united states only says the movement shares his goals goals that are now being furthered by a new friend kibo. it's not only me who's happy gyptian president hosni mubarak is gone all the arab world is mubarak never had a connection with any muslim organization he had the same hate israel israelis should be worried and israelis are the reconciliation deal between better rivals
hamas and fatah signed recently in cairo and by surprise and could never have happened if mubarak was still in power i think there was a lot of mistrust between hamas and mubarak and his regime have looked upon barak not. because of. a deal in his four years of division between hamas and fattah and better prepares them for the planet it can ration of palestinian statehood in september by you're most afraid that hamas runs they get. the west bank in a kind of free legal way by the palestinian authority. sooner rather than later or they will overtake the west bank and this might be then a problem not only for the palestinians it will be
a problem for all is right this is one of the many checkpoints between israel and the palestinian territories as cairo extends a hand to the palestinians security here is likely to be beefed up in the three months since mubarak was ousted no one's replaced him some believed the americans gave up the old friend to really and truly easily and this contemplating that his replacement will. democrats going to these interests instead it's the generals who continue to call the shots and they're playing. one. on one but on the other hand they want to establish a new relationship with the months we're not sure about the new egyptian government . so ironically washington thought it was creating a safer middle east its closest ally israel is suffering a recent poll found that fifty four percent of egyptians want to see the egyptian israeli peace treaty cancelled a statistic that has his raids turcite and missing the more and more the r.t.
on the palestinian authority so let's talk about egypt for a little a little while and certainly what we've seen a lot going on there and wondering dan what do you think will happen how the elections in egypt will change things if at all. eleven one who cares about the region has to be very concerned a lot of people have been very optimistic seemingly without cause to me the fact is that the most well organized gyptian group is the muslim brotherhood who are let's face it both anti-american and anti israel by temperament they're also anti-semitic in fact it's very disturbing and the most likely scenario unfortunately is they may very well come to power if not right away then in a couple of years and they're democratic bonafied are by no means assured hamas is in fact the palestinian version of the muslim brotherhood let me get you
a to react to this norm i mean do you agree that the muslim brotherhood if a is anti american and anti israel and you agree that if they came to power that things could really control. well by coincidence i just came back from egypt i was a very last week and i have to say i was surprised by the degree of passion and concern by the egyptian people for what's happening in taos stein intrinsic ular not exclusively about what's happening among the people in gaza. and there is no doubt that whatever government comes to power in egypt it's going to feel the pressures from the low to enable the palestinians or support the right of the palestinians to have a decent life in their own homeland on the other hand all of the egyptian
potential candidates for president. who are interviewed so far all of them said that there is no intention to renounce the one nine hundred seventy nine egypt israel the peace treaty there are put there is talk about reno it renegotiate being parts of it but not renouncing the treaty as a whole and i think that prospect is rather dim i think that the egyptians will stand by the treaty as a whole i want to go back to that i would also i would our however i want to make the point because again it seems to me the burden is already shifted in the direction of the powers to neons or in this case the egyptians there are radicals already in power extremists already empower those radicals and extremists they're in power in israel there are people like avigdor lieberman who many israelis call
a fascist their get out of calls are in israel i wouldn't say so many people called dr finkelstein many names too that doesn't make it true the thing he failed to mention about the op ed piece in the new york times is that the deputy speaker of the knesset was talking about what israel might do in response to unilateral action by the palestinian authority which they've announced they're going to take in violation of their signed agreements so in fact the very op ed piece he was talking about was talking about. responses to the palestinian authority is a provocation for the more when we talk about hamas and you pointed out correctly that russia does not consider them a terrorist organization but they do consider the groups that do the exact same things inside russia and are muslim extremists to be terrorist organizations hamas
is has murdered thousands of israelis the numbers not in the hundreds it's thousands and they've shot thousands of missiles into peaceful when israel is not in a state of war it a shot missiles into israel proper the any definition of you know moving forward towards peace as dr finkelstein says requires both sides to agree to things but israel simply will not agree either to make him happy or to make the palestinians happy with an agreement that does not provide them with the real security there are so many different aspects of the discussion here that i want to try to fit in as we run out of time but the one of them is that whether or not palestine will be recognized by the international community and the united nations is certainly a debate and there's been a pretty outspoken group that has shown up that we see here in washington at every rally and i want to show starting to look that in the tory carter and their role in all of this. every rally. every
demonstration. every opportunity to voice opposition. of orthodox jews joins forces with the loud choir calloused in support of. the collective voice is otherwise as neutral. true traditional jews are really just the opposed to the creation and existence of israel it is like. it is as much that so. terrible. movement of zionism which is the ideology behind the state of israel is my jabs for abatement according to rabbi dovid rights jews were exiled from the land of israel because of their since carter worshippers believe restoration of the land should only happen with the coming of the messiah
until then and we remember jews who have become a sovereign to be. according to israel and zionism are in direct conflict with the tour of the campaign for israel to be dismantled and the holy land returned to arabs who originally occupied. territory cortex can best be understood within the confines of east williamsburg brooklyn which comprises the largest community of antis dinosaur's the docks jews in the us and inclusive neighborhood dressed in traditional modest clothing defined by large families of up to twelve kids hear you speak yiddish. pray three times a day and display no flag of support for israel the jewish children living in this community all attend private schools boys and girls are separated but supporters of natori part-i say all the students learn from a curriculum that opposes israel and zionism rabbi dovid feldman says activism
plays a strong role in the religious life of new tory courted jews and this includes a meeting with leaders of muslim countries who have no problem. with a. problem with occupation which we have. an agreement that has raised eyebrows for members of natori courts i have spoken several times with the iranian president mahmoud ahmadinejad who they call a peace loving leader work that they've publicly praised turkish. fishelson even traveled to the country last year visiting injured activists following the israeli greed on the gaza flotilla. very often overseas demonstrations against israel have turned violent from london and montreal to the middle east a bloody and bruising backlash has transpired critics have classified the tory
courted jews as extremists and israel supporters deem them as traitors even here in new york city. and your. rabbi weiss is familiar with the dangers that surround natori. ready to go live to see it it's very it's not easy life devoted to their face even if it means facing contempt every step of the way. archie new york i want to talk about and norm to talk about this group i know that there are some people who say that there are extremists that the radical and criticize them for you know having met with ahmadinejad do you think that having that without an advantage. makes them extremists. well first of all i was simply a matter of principle if you want to resolve
a conflict with and then me the asli at some point along the way to meet with them and they go she and i don't think that their record of say energy is worse than the record of any leader of the state of israel has no record of having. invaded threatened no one just wars against its neighbors. and the current world around record has been pretty good respecting the rights and responsibilities its own rights and responsibilities in those of its neighbors and i'm going to interrupt you real quick about that and just play on something you said and he norm just said in order to resolve a conflict with an enemy you have to meet with that anime to talk about that in terms of this group and in terms of sort of what we've been talking about this whole thirty minutes this group is really a tiny sliver of the orthodox jewish community and they have to be a logical objections to be establishing the state of israel but putting them on
t.v. is a little bit like taking the people who thought the world was going to end this weekend and making them representative of all christians in the united states they really are a very tiny fringe and their error and i do criticize them meeting with a community who isn't just an enemy he's someone who has both denied the holocaust occurred during world war two and said that israel will be wiped off the map and he's building nuclear weapons to do it he treats his people abysmally all the things that have happened in the arab spring have have occurred much with much more deadly force in iran all right unfortunately we're out of time and i wanted to get you in here lots to discuss of course surrounding this topic and fortunately that's going to do it though daniel pollack called co-director of government relations for the zionist organization of america and norman finkelstein political scientist and author of this time we went to our troops and consequences of the gaza invasion. and that's going to do it for now for more on the stories we cover to go to our t.v. .